Thursday, May 01, 2008

Men Need To Butch Up--UPDATED & UPDATED AGAIN

Men. What the world needs more of is manly men. I've blogged about this before, but it's worth repeating. A girlfriend of mine told me that her three best girlfriends all have husbands that stay home while their wives work and the men sit around complaining about their wives. That just seems wrong somehow.

This post is going to be so politically incorrect that a good chunk of even my most traditional readers might not like it, but I'm kinda thinking out loud here for a minute. Do you guys think that by women entering the workforce, that women have had the same effect on the man's role as say welfare has?

I mean, a generation ago, a man wouldn't look down on his woman for not working outside the home. Taking care of the house; cooking, cleaning, caring for the children and basically being the center of the home was what a woman did. It was enough. No one would consider her to be slacking. In this generation, women suffer a vague, and sometimes, explicit, unease about doing that job. She is viewed as not pulling her weight because she's just a housewife.

And it's not just women judging women. Men, too, want their women to work to take the pressure off. A man is simply not interested in carrying all the financial weight and why should he have to? Women are equal now. Equal means doing the same thing--working and living like a man. Feminism means, and it's men that I've seen to be the biggest feminists, being a good man and bring home the bacon, frying it up in a pan and doing it again and again.

But it seems like an unintended consequence has been resentment. Women have excelled in the workplace. They can take care of themselves. They do leave their babies to work. Meanwhile, some men (not all, of course) have gone the other way. They no longer work as hard because they just don't have to. On the one hand, they don't have the financial pressure of their father's generation, but they also don't have the self-respect, work-ethic and noble purpose of their father's generation either.

It seems to me that a man needs to be needed and when that feedback loop is cut either by the government, or even by a working woman, he can (not always) lose his drive and desire to work and succeed.

Societally, it seems like men don't value or seem to be valued for manliness. A strong, hard-working, driven guy has been replaced with a soft, unmotivated, aimless man who can't make a declarative sentence or find the will to do what needs to be done. Basically, too many men have become pansies. Gay men need to butch up, too.

Somewhere between the hypermasculinity of Islamofascism and the gang culture on one hand and the effete softness of the bitchy out-of-work, tears in his beer dude on the other, there's a balance. To me, the honor, strength and drive shown by men who've been through military training serves as a good model of manly behavior.

I'm not suggesting that women should leave the workforce. I'm not suggesting that fantastic strides haven't been made in equality for men and women (I hate double negatives). Actually, I think that battle has been largely won. What I am suggesting is that maybe, by not feeling needed, men have been demoralized and some have given up. Some men have chosen the easy route just out of lack of character. And some men have taken on the message that men don't matter, that men aren't needed.

Men matter. And strong, hard-working men are needed. Men need to butch up.

UPDATED: Reader Wayne reminded me of Kim DuToit's essay The Pussification of the Western Male. It's a worthwhile read and I'm glad Wayne brought it to my attention again. Here's a taste:

Speaking of rap music, do you want to know why more White boys buy that crap than Black boys do? You know why rape is such a problem on college campuses? Why binge drinking is a problem among college freshmen?

It’s a reaction: a reaction against being pussified. And I understand it, completely. Young males are aggressive, they do fight amongst themselves, they are destructive, and all this does happen for a purpose.

Because only the strong men propagate.

And women know it. You want to know why I know this to be true? Because powerful men still attract women. Women, even liberal women, swooned over George Bush in a naval aviator’s uniform. Donald Trump still gets access to some of the most beautiful pussy available, despite looking like a medieval gargoyle. Donald Rumsfeld, if he wanted to, could fuck 90% of all women over 50 if he wanted to, and a goodly portion of younger ones too.

Amen, Kim.

UPDATE AGAIN:

Cassy Fiano has some stiff words for any limp men:

As I've said before, I think you see an overwhelming number of real men flocking to military or law enforcement lifestyles. And there's a reason -- the values I listed above are instrinsic to being a real man, and also to succeeding in the military. And, as I've said before, this is a large part of why so many women pine over having a military man for their own. There's a reason women swoon over An Officer and a Gentleman. Being in the military (or law enforcement) means you're signing up for so much more than just a job -- it's a lifestyle, a mindset.

An anonymous commenter said this:
Isn't it important to distinguish between "powerful men" who have money and/or status, and "powerful men" who have traditional male virtues like courage and self-reliance but may not be in roles viewed as high-status by society? (Some men of course may fall in both categories.)
Any woman who values money over male virtue deserves what she gets. I think many men wrongly believe that it's only money that matters to women. And to some, I suppose that's true. But I'm sick of men condemning women to superficiality when many women just want a strong, decent, hard-working man who is very good at what he does professionally and can man up personally. Some women limit themselves because they make good money and feel they need a man to make more than they do in order to respect him. That can be short-sighted. A confident man won't give a shit how much the woman makes. He won't feel small because she is successful. He will know who he is and what he's made of.

There are rich men and men of modest means who embody what it means to be a real man. And there are rich men and men of modest means who are insecure, wimpy, over-compensating assholes. In my experience money has had little to do with it.

Dr. Helen has a strong opinion about this and well wow! I did not view this post as male-bashing in any way, shape or form. In fact, I felt this post promoted just the kind of man many men are afraid of being for fear of being being viewed as too aggressive. Dr. Helen says this:
I have a different take on things. Say that a man works hard, and "acts like a man," rarely complaining and doing "man things." What is his reward? In your mind, it is self-worth. This is nonsense. Self-worth comes from working hard and being rewarded. Today, that man is regarded as a "chump." If a man works hard to get ahead, he puts it all at risk by having a family, in a society that says that his working means that he is now responsible for everything in a way that a woman will never be--if that man gets divorced. If he has kids, he is now responsible for their standard of living no matter what. No matter if he gets sick, no matter if his ex-wife is a spendthrift, no matter if his pay goes down, no matter what. The state puts him into indentured servitude to a family that no longer wants him as a member or wants him for four weekends a month. His life is toast, unless...he never "butches up" as you suggest. Your strategy can end in early death and a lifetime of servitude. "Soft and aimless" often ends with freedom. Which would you choose?
I would choose strong, manly and free, if it came to that. A man has to trade his masculinity, his virtue, his honor to protect himself against the possibility of getting fucked over in a divorce? First, let's hope he made a good choice in his life mate. Second, cold and calculating tends to draw cold and calculating. What a cynical way to live.

So this is where modern gender wars get us: women become more manly to protect against becoming a burdened haus frau and men stay home to protect against being an "indentured servant" after a potential divorce. What a disgusting mess.

95 comments:

Robbie C said...

Thanks for a great column, Dr. C.

I think we have seen a gradual but consistent feminization of men in our culture --- starting with the institutional feminization of young boys in elementary and grade school.

"Boy" behavior is now being drugged out of our kids, as though there is something wrong with young boys acting like...well, boys.

There's a great blog and forum called The Art of Manliness, which extols the virtues of being -- not just a man, but a good, virtuous man.

As a Veteran of the US Army, I couldn't agree with you more that most of the Men (capital M) that I know are men who have served in the Military.

To me few things are as virtuous and honorable as military service, and that trait seems to carry over into the civilian lives of those men too.

I try everyday to be a good man. But I do so by being unapologetically "MANLY".

Joe said...

I think you're pretty close to the truth here, especially this statement:

Actually, I think that battle has been largely won. What I am suggesting is that maybe, by not feeling needed, men have been demoralized and some have given up. Some men have chosen the easy route just out of lack of character. And some men have taken on the message that men don't matter, that men aren't needed.

I think the real problem is the parents. Society can do what it wants to erode the value of being a man. It has waged a war on boys for the last 20 years that I can attest to, but you just can't beat how you were raised. Good parenting will win out 9 times out of 10. I'm 42 years old and I was a late in life baby so my parents lived through the depression, the war, served in Korea (both of them), and raised me to be an old fashioned man.

Being an old fashioned man means I work hard despite the fact that I could live comfortably and work about 15 to 20 hours a week less. I do that because I was taught that what you do has meaning and you either do your best or don't bother. I'm somewhat of a stoic and my demeanor has left some folks thinking I'm cold and emotionless, but I feel things just as strongly as everyone around me. The difference is that I was taught to THINK my way through problems and not let my heart rule my head. I see no value in flying off the handle over every little thing, yelling at people, crying in public, blubbering like a school girl or whining like a baby.

I was raised to value honor, to keep my word, to say what I mean, mean what I say, and to think before I speak. I was raised to respect others privacy, person, and property (the three P's) and to expect the same from them. I was taught to defend my person, to defend my beliefs, to defend those too weak to defend themselves (and that includes women), and to never bully others. I was taught that the true measure of a man came not from their faith or skin color, but from how hard they worked and how well they adhered to these same principles. That's manning up.

You say men need to be more butch, I say they need to man up. There is a difference and it's this: being more butch means simply being more masculine, to man up means to chose a path that's not easy, its a long, hard arduous path and you will be attacked for choosing it - but the rewards are worth it. I don't spend my nights thinking about what I might have done, I don't worry if I did the right thing, I don't have many regrets, and I've got a small group of true friends that will always be there for me, and I for them. Funny enough, we've all served in the military. I wonder if that's a significant factor? Maybe we really do need some sort of compulsory service for kids these days, though I don't want to screw up our volunteer military these kids need more discipline and someone needs to teach them how to be men.

Anonymous said...

Melissa, I think this is an excellent and very important post! I also like what both Robbie C and Joe have to say.

My husband is a military guy as well and I have to say that he is one of the most conscientious and hardest working individuals I know. He takes pride in being successful in every area of his life. He does tend to be militant at home and I do have to remind him that he is no longer in the military. Nuff said about that. I would much rather have a manly man than a pansy wansy who can't stand up for himself or for what he believes. Or, as you put it Melissa, one who "can't make a declarative sentence or find the will to do what needs to be done."

In regards to working outside of the home. This tends to be complicated at times because in the age we live in. I have worked from the time I was 15 until now (mid 40's) and this is the first time I've not worked. I don't need to and yet, I find myself feeling guilty at times. Earlier on, I needed to and really, my husband wanted me to help as well...even when we had kids. I always found a way to do it and still be with my children. I think taking care of a home with all the details of cooking, cleaning, shopping, and taking care of the children before and after school, is a huge job in itself. Something gives when a person has to focus on so many things all at one time. No wonder half the nation is on prozac. I need to get over my guilt feeling and simply concentrate on my "homemaker" job.

I needed this post today! Thanks Melissa!!! :-)

I will say that so many women today put their men down and simply use them for the value of working and making money. This is so wrong. Asian nations have taken note of that and basically feel that women in this country rule. This should not be so. There needs to be a balance!

Anonymous said...

Don't forget the Kaaba, crying with the voice of the Muezzin from the Arabian desert, promising to remoralize the demoralized men.

If men don't "butch up", Islam will butch them up -- Their Way. Hypermasculinity with Divine Sanction and by Divine Command, doing God's Will! (i.e. Task of Cosmic Importance.)

"Honor, Strength, and Drive" -- even if the honor is the "Thar" (blood vengeance) of Arab tribesmen from a lethal zero-sum environment, the strength is dominating others, and the drive is to Martyrdom for the cause/faith.

Plus male-supremacist payback on the womyn who kept them down, turned them into pansies. His boot stamping on her face for a change (and male Self-Esteem). All elevated to Cosmic Importance by Divine Sanction.

Now THAT goes directly to the male hindbrain, especially male brainstems stewing in resentment or pussywhipped into submission. (i.e. Islam Gets Results.) Can what the Doc has described stand against such a hypermasculine appeal?

Anonymous said...

Isn't it important to distinguish between "powerful men" who have money and/or status, and "powerful men" who have traditional male virtues like courage and self-reliance but may not be in roles viewed as high-status by society? (Some men of course may fall in both categories.)

Consider three guys. Guy 1 has inherited wealth and an Ivy League education. Guy 2 is a well-known entertainer, though not as rich as guy 1. And guy 3 is a military NCO who has been decorated for valor and is recognized in his unit as a strong leader. All have roughly similar looks and personality attributes.

Which of the three would most women in our society choose?

james

Anonymous said...

Manliness is really the willingness to sacrifice self for the benefit of others, particularly a man's children, wife, family, neighbors and country.

Most young men are willing to die for the respect, admiration and love of a worthy and chaste woman. The problem is that interaction with most women today leads them quickly to the conclusion that few women are worth dying for.

Some will question the need for chastity as a requirement. However, from the male perspective, sex is the greatest compliment that a woman can pay to a man. A woman who sleeps around devalues the compliment.

I am lucky that I found such a woman. As a result, my goals in life in order of priority are fairly simple: (1) provide for my children until they graduate from college, (2) provide for my wife for the rest of her life, (3)provide for myself for the rest of my life, (4) serve my community, and (5) spend as much time with her as I can enjoying life.

Helen said...

Melissa,

You're right, it is a mess. The problem is that in this mess, women get the benefit of the law of their side, at work with sexual harassment laws, affirmative action for women etc. On the homefront, it gets worse for men. They have few rights under the law in terms of getting custody, paying child support that is fair, and even in the area of reproductive rights--men have few to none.

When this changes, maybe the "pansies" that you seem to be puzzled by will start to "man up" and feel freer to express an opinion, hold down a good job, and not be afraid to invest in their family in a way that is "manly." Until then, the "mess" will continue as more and more men op out of a society that holds them in contempt.

Jason said...

I'm sorry, you lost you at "Men need to..."

Or what? You'll nag us some more? What have you got to offer? The only butch response to such nonsense is, "...And you need to bring me a beer, honey." And no, I don't intend to cry in it.

Anonymous said...

Hey, Melissa, I'll man up if you friggin' grow up. Just a little.

MB said...

Doctor Melissa, what exactly do you bring to the table as consideration for the man acting according to your precise specifications (and also apparently earning all the money)?

Your vagina?

What if the man doesn't think you're worth it, does he still have to act within your precisely defined parameters?

What a spoiled, entitled brat.

Melissa Clouthier said...

Well, wow! I wrote this post asking if women in the work force created a situation where men felt they weren't needed and I'm getting that I'm nagging?

Where I see America is this: that neither the traditional woman's role nor the traditional man's role is respected. A woman is no longer respected for her unique ability to birth and mother a child. A man is no longer respected if he supports and protects his family. It's crazy!

Crops said...

I am disgusted with women who have allowed society to put down men and legislate against them via Kangaroo Family Courts and a dogmatic "man-up" media. You didnt view your article as man-bashing because you do it all of the time. men have taken note and simply decided women just arent worth it. Thank God. How much more man-bashing can one take.

Maybe these soldiers can speak to the large amount of military divorces/separations/infidelity.

My life is mine and Im glad more men are deciding not to muck theirs up w/man-hating women who've never cared about the plight of men until it affected them. Good Riddance.

Melissa Clouthier said...

Crops,

Who is "society" but the men and women who make it up? Both men and women benefited from "liberation" but it had some unintended consequences that have hurt both men and women. But worse than that, children have been harmed.

You'll get no argument from me that family court is a disaster. The judgment is capricious and comes from a position that has traditionally been misandric. If it makes you feel any better, I had a woman family member completely fucked over by a family court judge, so it goes both ways.

I still don't see how encouraging men to be the best sort of people is a bad thing.

Jason said...

You don't get it. There's no question that men are needed. Single parenthood is one of the (if not the) best predictors of poverty. The court system makes it very clear to men that they're needed as providers. This is not the issue.

(And no, I'm not a bitter, divorced father. I'm married, and have no children.)

Men are slowly starting to figure out that there's more to life. That working yourself to an early grave merely to fill someone else's need is a bad bargain. Your "unique ability to birth and mother a child" just isn't enough to justify that kind of effort. You're going to have to bring more to the table.

curious said...

Melissa...

You said:

'It seems to me that a man needs to be needed and when that feedback loop is cut either by the government, or even by a working woman, he can (not always) lose his drive and desire to work and succeed.'

I have to disagree. Men (and I would say pretty much all humans) want to *contribute* and have their contributions *appreciated* and *rewarded*. That's not the same as being needed, not the same at all.

I'm the very image of what you seem to be defining manliness to be: I'm strong, hardworking, and driven. I'm exactly who you want on hand in a pinch, because I will resolve *any* problem that happens across my path.

And I don't want to be needed. Because as things are structured today, being needed creates obligation, not reward or appreciation.

The big change has not been that men no longer feel needed, it's that there is no reward or appreciation for manliness anymore.

It used to be that being a strong husband and father (not domineering or controlling mind you, those aren't signs of strength, but markers or weakness) garnered you the respect of your community and the other men who were your peers. Where is that respect now?

It used to be that having a family significantly improved a man's quality of life. Is that still true?

Please note, I'm not at all advocating for the old Ozzy and Harriet model of family life, I wouldn't want to live like that. All I'm saying is that when I look at getting married and starting a family I don't see many additional benefits, but I see lots of additional obligations and risks.

So let me put this question out to the crowd, not as an agree question, but as an honest inquiry:

Why would a strong, hard working, driven guy want to get married?

Melissa Clouthier said...

Curious,

I think it's a great question, actually and to me, the answer is the same for both women and men. Marriage is for companionship, care (in sickness and health), and a secure environment in which to continue your genetic line--immortality, in a sense.

Humans want to be connected and marriage is a spiritual and contractual way to be connected.

If a person's goal is to always have everything only ever his own way or if a person doesn't like to share or if a person wants complete independence, marriage is not beneficial. It would be a burden in that case.

Crops said...

"I still dont see how ENCOURAGING men to be the best sort of people is a bad thing"

We call that shaming. Again, your article is Man-Bashing and we're tired of it.

-BUTCH-UP

-Basically, too many men have become pansies.

-effete softness of the bitchy out-of-work, tears in his beer dude on the other, there's a balance.

-And strong, hard-working men are needed. Men need to butch up.

-"The Pussification of the Western Male."
-"STIFF words for any LIMP men"

Like I said, you probably man-bash all the time. Who wants to be around that?

No ones INTERESTED in being wage-slaves for never satisfed women any longer. Women have made it very clear that they despise men by default. Their media is FULL of man-bashing as well as their behavior/conversation.

I think women are upset that men have been LISTENING and the contempt that women have held for men has finally over-ridden their chivalry.

WOMAN are responsible for this mess. Address them. Grow a pair.

curious said...

'I think it's a great question, actually and to me, the answer is the same for both women and men. Marriage is for companionship, care (in sickness and health), and a secure environment in which to continue your genetic line--immortality, in a sense.'

OK... companionship I don't quite get... because what I've observed with most of the married men I've seen is total social collapse. Five to ten years in they have no social network, they just have their family. I've noted women seem to be better at avoiding this pitfall (not bashing women here, just noting). In summary, most of the married men I've looked closely at seem to have traded the companionship of an extensive social network for the companionship of a single person (and possibly offspring). They seem vaguely... lonely :( The married men I observe tend to get lonelier due to marriage, not less lonely (at least in the medium to long term).

As to kids... I completely get the advantage to children of stable married parents. What I don't quite get is the benefit to fathers of children these days. Sure, you love them. But most peoples kids seem like holy terrors. And while most fathers will profess to the happiness their children bring in their life, it's almost always general platitudes, not specifics.

'Humans want to be connected and marriage is a spiritual and contractual way to be connected.'

I completely wanting to be connected... but why is marriage a better way to be connected than the other options?

Wayne said...

Ah, I knew you were opening a can of snakes with this one.

I read Dr. Helen's response to you with my mouth hanging open in amazement. Hoewver, after reading it again, I realized that she was probably trying to take the viewpoint of the man who looks around, and, seeing how men are being treated today, identifies the most likely way for him to avoid the landmines. On the other hand, you are advocating that, in order to bring about a broader stability with a greater sense of accomplishment and pride, men need to start acting with honor and dignity, and being willing to take the long view, rather than indulging in their selfish whims. What some of your commenters have not seen is that you are expecting that there will be a number of women who will respect that, and will provide the appreciation (and perhaps reward) mentioned by Curious above.

Incidentally, I agree that need does carry a negative implication of an obligation, but I suspect that you were thinking of the "reward and appreciation" part and not the "obligation" part when you wrote that.

Now, regarding the early part of your post -

"Do you guys think that by women entering the workforce, that women have had the same effect on the man's role as say welfare has?"

I certainly think that it has done that to some extent. I have known women for many years who have essentially mothered complete deadweights. They work AND take care of the home and the kids, while the man they are with only goes out and works enough to keep his car running and buy beer. These are not the norm (here), but I'd say they are far more prevalent than they were 30 years ago. Why the women allow these men to do this is anyone's guess, but I always suggest that these losers need to bounce at least once when they get kicked to the curb.

Oh, and crops - the only reason that men (in general, not necessarily any particular man) are in the position they are in today is because they have LET this happen. It could have been stopped at any time, and still can be, if a concerted effort would be made. Problem is, too many men stand around blaming women instead of making the effort to get things changed. Also, of course, there are the opportunist men who take the side of the man-bashing in order to gain credibility with the hateful feminazis. The tide will turn, however. If we work at it now, we might be able to keep from rolling over the women to such an extent that we become the stereotypes that the worst of the feminists believe us to be.

Jeff said...

Dr. Clouthier errs by assuming that men have changed their behavior because of sloth or indifference. On the contrary, men are less manly precisely because women are less lady-like. In general, women do not deserve the benefit of our manliness. The modern woman wants manliness for free. She feels entitled to it. It's something she's owed, and for which she must return nothing. Men have duties; women have needs.

Balderdash. What are the duties of the "real woman?" Here's an experiment you can perform with your female friends. Ask them what a man should do to make a woman happy. They can go on for hours. Then ask them what a woman should do to make a man happy. They will say "sex," and then get stumped. In other words, they effectively have nothing to offer except what a common prostitute delivers. It's women who've forgotten how to act, not men.

You want a man to act like a manly, chivalrous eighteenth century gentleman? Hey lady, when you start acting like a chaste, eighteenth century lady, we will. I'm not holding my breath.

crops said...

If it makes you feel any better, I had a woman family member completely fucked over by a family court judge, so it goes both ways.

The high proportion of Fatherless homes are the result of women who upon break-up (women iniate divorce 60-70% of the time) use the court system to shake and distance FATHERS from their children. The Family Court system fully endorses this unilateral maternal destruction of fathers-child relationships as they get a cut off the profits which is why they are always looking to include MORE of mens resources. Between Draconian measures to destroy mens finances and women recieving custody 90% of the time and no criminal charges or jail-time when they deny visitation and pit child against fathers, men are avoiding commiting to women. The fact is Melissa this happens to VERY FEW WOMEN. Theres no benefit to a man to become a husband and woman made it that way.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and crops - the only reason that men (in general, not necessarily any particular man) are in the position they are in today is because they have LET this happen. It could have been stopped at any time, and still can be, if a concerted effort would be made. Problem is, too many men stand around blaming women instead of making the effort to get things changed.

-I ABSOLUTELY agree, I think it has more to do w/ mens chilvarous nature & not wanting to be seen as complainers. However, men have adjusted by avoiding marriage and pursuing their own happiness. Women are gonna fix this as far as Im concerned. I help MEN by asking them to look into the #'s before they throw their lives away. I dont stand around, I acquire knowledge & spread it

The tide will turn, however.

It already is. See above whiny article w/included links.

Wayne said...

anon 12:16AM - What whiny article? I don't see no whiny article. I saw a couple of comments up there that approached whininess, talking about how mean Dr. Melissa was to suggest that men aren't very attractive when they act like whiny little bitches.

What I don't understand is the focus people have put on marriage in the comments. Yes, I realize that this is where men get burned the most, but she was addressing men's basic behavior, not why they aren't getting married.

If more men would Man Up and act rightly, and tell the screeching harpies who try to maintain the status quo to shut the hell up, you would almost certainly see more women respecting men, and the situation would begin to reverse itself almost immediately. We really cannot wait for women to solve it for us, that's part of the problem. Also, I say again: We have to do it ASAP, or we risk too many men following the pendulum swing all the way into the stereotypes that the feminists have painted us with, and starting the cycle all over again.

Anonymous said...

Wayne. Your attempting to shame men by complaining about those that dont agree w/your friend here. Marriage has to do w/ interaction/relationships w/ women. What is it you think your friend is demanding men BUTCH-UP to?

-Men simply have to be aware of the environment. Women will give a damn and reverse what THEY have iniated once they suffer for it. In the meantime stop trying to cover for them. Worse case scenario is an Eye for an Eye. I can wait. Get to work Wayne!

SurferDoc said...

Around age 35 I learned to be a man. I do what needs to be done. I take care of myself and I take care of others. I attracted and have loved and been loved by good woman these last 30 years.

Both men and women have strength, sometimes more than they know they have until they try it out. The formula is simple for both, "Be strong and straight and take care of who and what needs it." That's all.

Anonymous said...

Those stay at home dads complaining about their wifes need to watch more old Clint Eastwood (Hang 'em High) and John Wayne (The Quiet Man) movies. Toss in a little bit of UFC action for good measure. Or use the time to go hunting.

Anonymous said...

I think modern men need to work harder and give more money to women, give them more time to watch Oprah (like back in the good old days) and also grow more hair on their back and grunt answers instead of talking lots like gay guys.

I think modern women need to lose some weight and quit bitching.

Anonymous said...

SurferDoc:

Do you work in a platitude factory?

MB said...

Robbie C and a couple others above:

Don't bother with your detailed description of how you're "manly".

If you want to play Real Man for women, then just friggin' do it.

If you're fishing for respect (why else would you write your crap?), you sure aren't going to get it from me. I think men who are easily manipulated by women (via shaming tactics) are pathetic.

I've seen "real men" whose wives cut them down behind their backs (while the "real man" completely pays for these bitches), I've seen "real men" who completely collapse in life after their wives file for divorce and I've seen "real men" who are so obviously being manipulated by the woman that it is laughable.

Anonymous said...

Has the Very Important Doctor Melissa been reading "The Princess and the Pea" again?

I agree with a poster above: Grow up.

Lydia said...

Although she's not a man, Melissa is full of (bossy) prescriptions as to how men should act and even think and feel.

Give it a rest, Melissa. Clean up your own glass house first.

kman said...

Great post!

Robbie C, Joe - good comments. Thanks for sharing. I totally agree that "boy" behavior is being drugged out in schools.

This post is not male-bashing. It's stating the obvious. Men need to man up... period. I guess it's just easier for some to cry in their beer instead.

Having said that... There is absolutely another side of the equation... which is that women need to esteem manliness higher. They show that esteem by not being selfish manipulative little bitches.

Regardless of what you think about this post... I can assure you Dr C is no male hater. If you were a regular reader you would know this.

Anonymous said...

<< "This post is not male-bashing. It's stating the obvious. Men need to man up... period." >>

Or else ... what?

What are you, as a Real Man, going to do about it? LOL

Watch your mouth, Real Man.

Wayne said...

"Wayne. Your attempting to shame men by complaining about those that dont agree w/your friend here. Marriage has to do w/ interaction/relationships w/ women. What is it you think your friend is demanding men BUTCH-UP to?"

1) I'm making no attempt to shame men. If you think so, then maybe you need to go look more closely in the mirror.
2) I haven't complained about anyone who disagrees, I've merely pointed out how I believe that their understanding of the point of her post is flawed, and how their prescriptions for a solution (waiting for women to do it all, or else just acting like gutless wonders to get along) are first of all going to be much slower than if they take matters in their own hands, and second of all, the backlash against women is going to be much worse in the long run, which will just exacerbate the tension between men and women.
3) Yes, marriage has to do with Man-Woman relationships, but "Manning Up" is SO much more than that.
4) I think that Melissa is suggesting that men need to start acting like honorable men again, and that encompasses behavior in or out of a relationship, at work, at home, with adults, with children, and even with animals.

Also, while all I know of Melissa is having read her blog here for a couple of months, I'm sure I would be honored to call her friend.

Wayne said...

"There is absolutely another side of the equation... which is that women need to esteem manliness higher."

kman - I was going to suggest a post on the female side of this as well, hopefully as a follow-up to it.

"Or else ... what?"

Well, I didn't write the statement that this was a response to, but I'll take a stab at the "what". Or else... men will continue to be treated like ignorant children, and will continue to let actual man-hating women get away with it. It's much harder to treat men that way if their actions make such treatment obviously ludicrous. To imply that kman's statement was a threat is childish.

kman said...

Anon: 6:14

> Or else ... what?

You act as if I'm threatening you... I don't get it... there is no personal threat intended or implied in my comment.

Men need to man up or else society goes to shit. Don't you think we are at least 1/2 way there right now?

> What are you, as a Real Man, going to do about it? LOL

I'm trying to encourage men to stand up and be responsible. Men need to make a positive change in society wherever they can. You are only mocking and adding to the problem.

> Watch your mouth, Real Man.

Tough words from an anonymous poster.. ouch.

Duck said...

Melissa

You need to heed the old wisdom "be careful what you wish for".

Being "driven" is a personality trait, not a character trait. Sacrificing for one's family is a character trait. The two are not equivalent. One can do the latter without being the former.

I am the opposite of the driven male, yet I served in the Marines and have supported a wife and daughter for the last 26 years. I am not loud, agressive or bossy. That's just my personality, and its not amenable to being changed by any commandment to "man up".

Men who are driven are that way because of their nature. Nature is inherent, but character is built. Nature just wants men to reproduce, so men are driven to have sex with as many women as possible. Somehow I don't think that is what you want.

If you want dedication, loyalty and self sacrifice in men, then say so. You want character, not ingrained, stereotypical male behavior.

Like I said, be careful what you wish for.

Crops said...

Ummm, why would I waste my time looking in the mirror when your WORDS supply ample proof. Get that Crayon-to-Text software repaired.

Men are no longer on the clock, women are. Only one believing themself a women couldnt see this. Man-Up.

"the backlash against women is going to be much worse in the long run"

-make yourself useful & explain why.

"Yes, marriage has to do with Man-Woman relationships, but "Manning Up" is SO much more than that."

-show us where this is inferred via original article/posts.

"I think that Melissa is suggesting that men need to start acting like honorable men again"

-Why should I display Honor to those who have been dishonorable and save their derision for men because they lack the courage to address the culprits -women! (Pearls b4 Swine).

Chalmers said...

Wow, great post Sis. It has certainly gotten some action on the comments side. Almost as effectively as an abortion post.

My two cents... A person needs to do the right thing and act appropriately individually (if the "right" thing has to be defined for you, well then you are being purposefully obtuse).

When men and women treat each other with honor and respect, good things happen (in or out of marriage).

For those fighting some sort of perceived war with women... where is it leading you? Are you going to go with the "mutual destruction" approach?

There is no doubt that relationships (marriage or otherwise) expose each of us to risk, but there are also rewards. If those rewards are not worth it to you (that would be the royal you, not any one poster in particular).

I think the Dude said it best when posed with this question, "Is it being prepared to do the right thing? Whatever the price? Isn't that what makes a man?"

Sure. That, and a pair of testicles.

-Little Brother

JG said...

X-posted:

Maybe it would help to pin down exactly what Melissa means:

If she means by "man up" that men should strive to be honorable, to stand their ground on the right principles, to have the courage to fight injustice, to know the difference between right and wrong and act on it etc., then here's my question:

Why is she just telling men to be that way? Shouldn't EVERYONE (men and women) strive to be honorable in their dealings with others etc.?

And if she thinks that women are immune to that, that women are basically children who have to be given a pass, I would ask if she thinks that women should also have responsible positions in society if that is true.

If she also thinks that women should be able to hold responsible positions in society (which I suspect), then she is a hypocrite, pure and simple.

Now if she means something else - that men should be hard-hewn bad-asses that beat up other guys (well, at least other guys smaller than themselves) and should be muscular and all the rest, I'd say that's an entitled woman telling other men to fit the mold of man that gets her wet. It's entitlement, because instead of looking for the kind of guy she wants, she wants the world to change to meet her fantasies. You can't get any more entitled than that.

JG said...

As a side note on this board: The loudest guy in the room isn't necessarily the strongest.

I'd apply that to the people here who are most vigorously citing their RealMan(TM) qualifications.

Anonymous said...

First this--

Consider three guys. Guy 1 has inherited wealth and an Ivy League education. Guy 2 is a well-known entertainer, though not as rich as guy 1. And guy 3 is a military NCO who has been decorated for valor and is recognized in his unit as a strong leader. All have roughly similar looks and personality attributes.

Which of the three would most women in our society choose?


James the same woman, if she had her choice would pick guy number 1--not out of shallow money grubbing, but because of this--

All have roughly similar looks and personality attributes.

If all three have the same personality attributes, then all three would have acted in the same fashion as the NCO that you favor.

Now, those who have accused Dr C of 'male-bashing' are correct. But I will point out that she doesn't do it out of conscious misandry, she does it because it's okay, it's normal. She doesn't--and can't--see it as 'bashing because it's become the standard and it's aided and abetted by men.

How many men here would feel comfortable telling women that they needed to 'girl up'? That they needed to get back into their traditional role, their 'place'?

The modern feministized woman wants all the 'rights' acquired by feminists--and they want a man who, despite this, acts as if he's still in a traditional role.

What they fail to see is that they're not really dissatisfied with men--they're actually dissatisfied with the state the 'womens' movement' has left them in.

Wayne said...

"Crayon-to-Text Software" - I haven't seen that one before. That's some funny shit right there. If you made that one up, congratulations.

Now, with a bit less levity:
Please show what you think means I am trying to shame men, I don't think I did so.

"the backlash against women is going to be much worse in the long run"

-make yourself useful & explain why.


The longer men allow themselves to be infantilized, derided, and degraded, the more resentment is going to build up. The more resentment builds, the more hateful will be the reaction when the chance comes to turn the tables. This is reflected in history all over the place, but the easiest one to remember is that built-up resentment is the main reason Marie Antoinette lost her head.

"Yes, marriage has to do with Man-Woman relationships, but "Manning Up" is SO much more than that."

-show us where this is inferred via original article/posts.


Well, after reading the article again, I see how some people have gotten the impression that it was mostly about marriage. I would say, however, that it didn't look like anyone gave any consideration to the statement, "I'm kinda thinking out loud here for a minute." (Ok, it was more than a minute) Basically, I took that to mean that what came next was a "stream of consciousness" posting and paid more attention to the last couple of paragraphs, as that would be where she was headed through the previous ones:

"Somewhere between the hypermasculinity of Islamofascism and the gang culture on one hand and the effete softness of the bitchy out-of-work, tears in his beer dude on the other, there's a balance. To me, the honor, strength and drive shown by men who've been through military training serves as a good model of manly behavior.

I'm not suggesting that women should leave the workforce. I'm not suggesting that fantastic strides haven't been made in equality for men and women (I hate double negatives). Actually, I think that battle has been largely won. What I am suggesting is that maybe, by not feeling needed, men have been demoralized and some have given up. Some men have chosen the easy route just out of lack of character. And some men have taken on the message that men don't matter, that men aren't needed."


And to your last question:

"Why should I display Honor to those who have been dishonorable and save their derision for men because they lack the courage to address the culprits -women!"

On an individual basis, there are times when we need to sink to someone's level in order to dispense some justice, but that doesn't excuse not acting honorably as a baseline. There is always room for exceptions when needed.

Anonymous said...

"In this generation, women suffer a vague, and sometimes, explicit, unease about doing that job. She is viewed as not pulling her weight because she's just a housewife."

In my 39 years, I've never encountered a man who thought like that. I do, however, encounter many (soon to be) spinsters who still think like that. They have to, because they went the other way, and now they are rapidly approaching the age at which it can't happen for them, and they look back at a 'successful' life that has brought them no joy, and they are left trying to make sense of how that could have happened.

JG said...

Anonymous at 9:02:

If you are saying that in your 39 years you have never heard a man say that housewives don't pull their weight, then today is going to be a momentous day for you.

I think housewives are pretty much useless today. They certainly don't pull their weight.

There.

How's it feel? Your big day in almost 40 years. Now just look around, and suddenly you will see more male voices saying that.

Crops said...

Good follow-up Wayne. I agree w/almost ALL of it. especially this:

"On an individual basis, there are times when we need to sink to someone's level in order to dispense some justice, but that doesn't excuse not acting honorably as a baseline."

Exactly, this reaction is IN RESPONSE to being attacked by women for sooo long and BELIEVING they had men pegged better then I instinctively felt. I am honorable but when under constant attack I refuse to acquiesce any longer. Attacks will be met and returned. This is about the 5th article written by a women attacking men-this year, all w/ Man-Up somewhere in the piece. Woman are freaking-out! The writer had some good thought-provoking points particularly:

I'm not suggesting that women should leave the workforce. I'm not suggesting that fantastic strides haven't been made in equality for men and women (I hate double negatives). Actually, I think that battle has been largely won. What I am suggesting is that maybe, by not feeling needed, men have been demoralized and some have given up. Some men have chosen the easy route just out of lack of character. And some men have taken on the message that men don't matter, that men aren't needed.

-but she screwed-up the whole premise w/ 4 words: MAN-UP/BUTCH-UP. I tired of women whining about men while feeling immune/above criticism themselves & women are WEAKER for it. Go scream at the feminist/N.O.W who put chilvarous men in this no-win position

Man-Up? Aight, put your dukes up then home-girl. Enough is Enough!

Anon@8:02 wrote-

"Now, those who have accused Dr C of 'male-bashing' are correct. But I will point out that she doesn't do it out of conscious misandry, she does it because it's okay, it's normal."

EGGGZACTLY! I agree w/your entire post.

Anonymous said...

Let me guess ... "Dr." Melissa got a Ph.D. in psychology, sociology or cross-disciplinary gender and ethnic studies.

Her thinking processes are showcased above. That's what a doctorate gets you.

In any case, I will bet the farm that she doesn't have a doctorate that took some work, like in physics or molecular biology.

It's too funny ... people with the easy ones are always rubbing their titles in people's faces. I even saw a woman last week who always puts "M.A." after her name. What's next, "B.A." or "GED Candidate" after your name? Bejeezus.

Stuart Schneiderman said...

Surely, Dr. M is correct that our culture does not value traditional manly virtues. And she is also correct to note that the military embodies these better than most of society. If that is true, then we should note note that the current anti-war sentiment is, among other things, an effort to devalue the virtues involved in military service and manliness. When segments of the culture denounce the military as criminals who are fighting for a futile cause they are saying that the old style of masculine behavior is a sham.

When an Obama pretends to be superior to those with military and foreign policy experience because he has superior judgment, and when that judgment is merely a reprise of standard anti-war beliefs, then masculinity is clearly being devalued in relation to more cerebral qualities.

The same applies to the constant attacks against the business and financial communities, commerce, international trade, and free markets. When businesspeople are called corrupt, criminal, price-gouging, money-grubbing, oppressive imperialists... the message is that these forms of what William James called "the moral equivalent of war" are less valuable.

In place of a culture that valued masculine behavior we now have a celebrity culture that values public displays of weakness, vulnerability, and emotion.

Crops said...

Men maybe from Venus
Women could be from Mars
Stuart Schneiderman.......!?!?

Anonymous said...

I'll tell ya' men, you better Man Up. Because if you're old, sick, handicapped or otherwise of no use (mostly financial) to Melissa and her enlightened sisters, you may as well just die because you are useless.

They won't mate with you unless you are an alpha male, but they will tolerate you if you can serve them in some way.

If you can't, you don't really deserve to live, and the other tolerated males may just take you out.

The inherent worth of men is only what they can provide for Melissa and other women.

You better Man Up now, while you can.

Anonymous said...

lol, above

Anonymous said...

Congratulations, sexual equality is now practically a reality and traditional male/female roles have been mostly wiped out.

Learn to live with your success ladies.

UltraBeans said...

"What the world needs more of is manly men."

Absolutely. As such, I shall now do the most manly thing I can think of and ignore all the putrid drivel that spews out of your mouth.

Enjoy your cats, honey.

Mark said...

Unfortunately 'be a man', 'act like a man' or 'be manly' have just become ways to try and shame men into doing whatever the other party wants of them. I guess in older times we used to know what being a man meant and we had decent role models as examples, but these days the definition of a 'real man' means a whole lot of different things.

To traditional women a real man is chivalrous, is the head of the household and provides well for his family.

Modern women want real men to treat them like equals in the boardroom or in the office, but not so much on dates or at home.

Feminists think real men should be responsible for all the bad things that happen in the world, but be gracious enough to let women take the credit for all the good stuff.

Vegetarian women say real men aren't afraid not to eat meat or wear leather.

Gold diggers think that real men are generous with their money and buy their girlfriends expensive gifts.

New Age women want real men to show their feelings, not be afraid to cry and come to terms with their inner child.

Heartless women think that real men shouldn't cry or show emotion and have big tattoos.

Romantic women think that real men are caddish types who'll sweep them off their feet and passionately make love to them.

Rape counsellors say real men ask before touching a woman and get her consent before sex.

Rock chicks think that real men have long hair, wear leather pants and don't wash.

And I could go on. It sickens me that men actually listen to all this crap as if it's women's perogative to define what 'being a man' is. Is it any wonder that men eventually give up trying and just become little more than aging adolescents, doing their own thing?

Melissa Clouthier said...

Mark,

Your point is valid and well-taken. And actually, is there any one sort of man? I guess I should have been more specific.

To me, a "real man" can be the bread-winner or the man in the board room or the man caring for the kids or the hippie biker dude or the vegetarian (although....never mind) or whatever he chooses to be. What I was trying to get at was strength of character, a comfort with himself, a desire to excel at whatever he does and a notion of how to operate in the world and at home. Such a man isn't defined by his money or status or career or family name, but by his decisions and his priorities.

Upon further reflection, I realized that what was irking me was an underlying victim mentality. The feminists have that down in spades. But a real man or woman owns his or her choices and revels in the freedom to do so.

Thank you for your thought-provoking feedback.

Anonymous said...

Unless the happy couple vows to enter into the "full Catholic" marriage, i.e., sacramental, lifelong, and non-contraceptive, I don't see how marriage is a better deal for men than friendship with benefits.

The old Book of Common Prayer had it right: marriage is for the upbringing of children, the aid against fornication, and the mutual aid of one to another, in that order. Modern society's problem is that the first two have been overthrown by contraception/abortion and divorce, respectively, and the third does not require even the burden of accommodating the foreign sex, much less the surrender of half one's assets. (And here I do not refer to homosexuality but to simple friendship.)

MikeT said...


I would choose strong, manly and free, if it came to that. A man has to trade his masculinity, his virtue, his honor to protect himself against the possibility of getting fucked over in a divorce? First, let's hope he made a good choice in his life mate. Second, cold and calculating tends to draw cold and calculating. What a cynical way to live.


You would have a point there were it not for two inconvenient truths about marriage:

1) Most people don't make a "good choice" in their mate.

2) Most marriages end in divorce.

Statistically speaking, it is moronic to just go into a marriage brazenly assuming it's got little chance of failing and ending up in family court. Any man who does not think long term, and include this in his thinking, isn't being romantic, he's being an idiot.

Jason said...

Having read both this posting and Cassie Fiano's, I have no clue what either of you are talking about. You rant about how a man should be this or that and then complain when they protest. It's nothing more than a continuation of the same feminist bullshit that's plagued society for years--you want all the advantages and none of the responsibility.

News flash; our divorce system completely and totally favors women. Men have started to defend THEIR rights and now you complain that they are "acting" the victim.

Shame on you.

Anonymous said...

"A girlfriend of mine told me that her three best girlfriends all have husbands that stay home while their wives work and the men sit around complaining about their wives. That just seems wrong somehow."

But somehow it's ok for a woman to sit at home playing computer games all day long while the man works 50 hours a week? It used to be that when a couple didn't have children, the housewife played lots of tennis, or something similar, while her man worked all day. But there were compensations for the man. Those are gone.

"I'm not suggesting that fantastic strides haven't been made in equality for men and women (I hate double negatives). Actually, I think that battle has been largely won."

I would suggest that "the battle has been won" if the goal is give women more power over their own lives, more power within relationships, and more power within their families...but if the goal is equality, that battle has *not* been won.

"I would choose strong, manly and free, if it came to that. A man has to trade his masculinity, his virtue, his honor to protect himself against the possibility of getting fucked over in a divorce?"

What is unmanly about a man who supports himself, treats other people with respect, has moral integrity and moral courage, but simply drops out of situations where manliness is no longer rewarded? Who simply doesn't put himself in a position where someone can take advantage of him? Believe it or not, the possibility of getting "fucked over" in a divorce isn't small, it is a likelihood, frankly. When a romantic relationship ends, it is amazing how many women become vinditive...and the state hands them the hammer and tongs with our current legal system. A vast and overwhelming percentage of divorces are initiated by women, and in the overwhelming majority of divorces, the man gets the raw deal assuming there are children. Men aren't blind; they can see what happens to their friends and relatives.

Men have essentially all of the responsibilites they've always had (and some new ones too!) but they've lost many of rewards that they used to have for fulfulling those responsibilities. On top of that, they are treated either like dufuses or the enemy by society even when they do take on all of their responsibilities. Surprise, surprise; incentives matter.

The men of a society behave based on the incentives that the women of a society create. If women in large numbers take advantage of divorce laws to fleece honest, hardworking men who are good husbands simply because they have grown "bored", you'll find that fewer men become honest, hardworking men willing to put themselves in that position. If women reward bad boys with lots of casual sex, you'll get more bad boys because that's what gets rewarded. The only reason we even *have* fire fighters and a military and cops is because there are still some women who reward that behavior with respect. When you have a society where men who are the first to break ranks and run and shunned by the women of society, you get brave men (celtic and germanic tribes) but if it has no effect on how a man is treated by women, cowardice becomes commonplace and accepted (medieval China).

If you think the men of a society are not acting the way they should, blame the women of that society.

MikeMangum

Anonymous said...

"I think it's a great question, actually and to me, the answer is the same for both women and men. Marriage is for companionship, care (in sickness and health), and a secure environment in which to continue your genetic line--immortality, in a sense."

I'm not sure why this can't be provided simply by making a (non legally binding) commitment to each other. The commitment that the man recieves from a marriage isn't any greater than the commitment he would recieve from simply agreeing with his live on lover to live together and support each other for the rest of their lives. Once you bring the government into it, the responsibilities are very one sided. Blame the family law system and no fault divorce.

MikeMangum

New Sisyphus said...

Gawds, what a load of horseshit. Doctor, let me tell you what ever newly-sexually-aware 13-year old boy knows:

Women enforce expectations of male behavior.

Virtue said...

Imagine waking up tomorrow to find
that unbelievably rape is now legal.

You would be freaking out, telling everyone you ran into this is crazy- something needs to be done… now!!! And then every man you told this to just very smugly and condescendingly says…

"Hey… not all men are 'like that.'”

Anonymous said...

Virtue,

I don't even think that many women will understand that.

To many women, and possibly to Melissa, men are kind of like pylons or furniture to be rearranged and put into the proper place. They are only to be considered with regard to what they can do for women - mostly financially.

It's truly a bizarre concept that men are also human beings.

Anonymous said...

Women always think they can change men.

This post is all blah blah blah why don't you work harder, why don't you take more responsibility for difficult things, you should never complain.

You think this is new? Wives have been saying this kind of stuff to husbands for centuries. And it's been pissing them off for centuries.

But these days, it's socially acceptable to not be married, you can still get sex, and you don't need a housewife what with dishwashers etc.

So that means we no longer have to sign up for marriages with women who think we're some project for her to work on improving, like a goddamn kitchen or something.

The nagging harpys of the world are greatly disappointed at that, but they're just going to have to get used to it.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 6:39 PM:

That's about it.

In the past, women had leverage with their bitching because men DID get married to them. Women had plenty of measures to enforce compliance with their steady stream of complaints and demands. They could shame and blame, they could withhold sex, they could nag until the man wanted to commit suicide or they could drop the atom bomb and file for divorce. They could also call 911 and lie, they could gossip about the guy to their mother, sisters and friends, and they could induce guilt.

Now some men (and the numbers are slowly increasing) are simply avoiding this. They are avoiding marriage, avoiding harpies and tuning out the attempts at shaming.

These types of bitches (and there are plenty) are going to start REALLY getting frustrated in the future. Men are just not going to play the rigged game anymore. Bitch all you want.

Buckeye Tom said...

Let me start by saying, after reading your post, I didn't come away thinking you were bashing men.

However I do think you're premise is off. I don't believe men in general are being emasculated, or are less manly. That's a "man is victim" argument I'm not buying.

Just like women varying from feminist to traditional, there have also been and always will be, men ranging in "manliness". For every cowboy, there has always been a misunderstood artist. For every soldier, there has been an emotionally wretched poet.

The only difference now versus John Wayne's era is Hollywood has a different agenda. They have decided to showcase pretty boys and imbeciles (of which they have an abundance) in movies and television. I personally don’t watch those movies or TV shows, but men whining about the male role models on television, serves no purpose but to claim victim hood, which I‘m not personally interested in doing. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t care what Hollywood says men are like. Pop culture isn't reality. If that were the case, one could easily come to the conclusion that Americans overwhelmingly believe our troops are stupid, murderous, scum based on the endless stream of anti-war movies being rolled out. That view is not reality based, and neither is the view that American men are less manly or stupid.

For the most part, women who view man as less manly, base this solely on anecdotal evidence. Your post began with your girlfriend telling you, how her 3 friends were relating how their do nothing husbands sat around all day complaining about their wives. But weren‘t these 3 women in essence, sitting around complaining about their husbands as well? I doubt these men are as bad as their wives described, but even if they are, wouldn’t that fall in the “ First, let's hope he made a good choice in his life mate” requirement men are under.

There is not a “man crisis”. Men are the largest constituents of the Republican and Libertarian parties, who represent a strong military / personal responsibility / family values platform.

I am a conservative Republican because of Ronald Reagan, not because of Alex P. Keaton. I didn't learn to be a man from my elementary school teachers (whether or not dodge ball was allowed). I learned from watching my dad get up every morning, go to work all day, then off to college courses at night, so he could provide for his family.

But as to your original question, as to whether or not men feel threatened by women in the work force, I can only speak for myself when I say, women are not the enemy. If a woman wants to work that's great. If a woman chooses to be a stay at home mom, I respect that as well.

Anonymous said...

If you want a society with more real men, don't support a leftist society. Don't vote for liberal politicians, don't create a nanny state, don't send money to liberal organizations, don't support old-school feminism or feminists, don't support politically correct rules, don't support leftist universities and their programs, don't restrict public funds for children to just public schools. You get the picture. Modern liberals/democrats are at the root of destroying manhood because it is a direct threat to their agenda and power. They push all the policies that destroy manhood. If you want real man, you would never consider a liberal democrat nor support their agenda.

Anonymous said...

Buckey Tom sez:

"If a woman wants to work that's great. If a woman chooses to be a stay at home mom, I respect that as well."

Sorry, that doesn't sound like a man of inner strength to me, but instead a wimp who will have women walking all over him.

You just "respect" whatever a woman does, whenever she does it (yeah, like you really "respect" anything she does). If she leeches off you, that's fine. If she works and spends the money on herself, that's fine. If she works then suddenly quits, sticking you with more responsibility for paying for her, that's fine.

Man, grow a pair. Your strategy of meekly doing what the woman wants is not going to garner you any respect, not even from the using woman. Is a woman (more likely: her vagina) really that important that you have to pretend respect for whatever she does and just let her tell you what's what? I don't think so.

Anonymous said...

"To me, a "real man" can be the bread-winner or the man in the board room or the man caring for the kids or the hippie biker dude or the vegetarian (although....never mind) or whatever he chooses to be. What I was trying to get at was strength of character, a comfort with himself, a desire to excel at whatever he does and a notion of how to operate in the world and at home. Such a man isn't defined by his money or status or career or family name, but by his decisions and his priorities."

Alright now melissa, now turn around & tell the women THAT. And leave the 3:00 door knockings to the candidates.

Men are here. Your surrounded.

Anonymous said...

All of this seems to boil down to a "wish list" of a young, dopey girl. She is simply broadening it to tell all men that is how they should be (exactly like her dream boat - that is a real man).

I can hardly believe this girl is out of high school, let alone in possession of some Ph.D. Isn't the college that gave it to her embarrassed?

I think "grow up" is the correct term to apply here. I don't even mean that as a slam, I mean literally grow up.

Mike Hunter said...

A girlfriend of mine told me that her three best girlfriends all have husbands that stay home while their wives work and the men sit around complaining about their wives. That just seems wrong somehow.


Bwhahahaha! Welcome to my world! I work two jobs in order to support a three person family, and am enrolled full time in college. While my overweight, overbearing, bitchy, girlfriend sits at home watching daytime tv and eating bon-bons. She doesn’t cook, clean, and the [when I get any] sex is routine, boring, and selfish [from her end]. The way she defines love is by what a man can do for her; Much like the author of this article.

All because a girl that I was banging "accidentally" got pregnant. Despite constantly claiming that she was infertile, and giving me guilt trips about how I didn't trust her when I used a condom.

It's worthwhile to point out that your friends actually CHOSE to get married and chose to keep their children instead of putting them up for adoption. Which was a privilege that I wasn't afforded.

If you're friends are dis-satisfied with their husbands they can choose to leave; and probably get the kids, the house, the car, and child support in the process.

When it comes to family law and gender relationships men have been getting the short end of the stick from the past century or so. Now that there's a infinitely small chance that a woman possible could get screwed over as bad as a man they scream bloody murder. Even though the deck is still stacked in a woman’s favor in almost every conceivable way.



Donald Trump still gets access to some of the most beautiful pussy available, despite looking like a medieval gargoyle.

I’m stating the obvious here but the reason Donald Trump is banging supermodels is because he’s rich and most women are really gold diggers at heart.

Anonymous said...

Now it looks like she's trying to backpedal. She's explaining what she meant.

Buckeye Tom said...

"Anonymous said...

Sorry, that doesn't sound like a man of inner strength to me, but instead a wimp who will have women walking all over him."

I see, Spanky (I’ll assume that’s your name because you were manly enough to post anonymously). Since I won’t join your He Man Womun Haters Club (http://hemanwomunhatersclub.com/) I’m a wimp. Sorry but women don’t walk over me, and neither do sniveling men.

"You just "respect" whatever a woman does, whenever she does it (yeah, like you really "respect" anything she does). If she leeches off you, that's fine. If she works and spends the money on herself, that's fine. If she works then suddenly quits, sticking you with more responsibility for paying for her, that's fine."

That’s not what I said. I said I’m fine if she works, and I’m fine if she’s a stay at home mom. Either way, she’s contributing, not leeching off of me.

"Man, grow a pair. Your strategy of meekly doing what the woman wants is not going to garner you any respect, not even from the using woman. Is a woman (more likely: her vagina) really that important that you have to pretend respect for whatever she does and just let her tell you what's what? I don't think so."

Sorry Spanky, but I’m not fishing for respect from you or anyone else. I have self respect, I don’t need others to prop me up. I’ve gotten by in life by working harder than the next guy. It makes no difference to me, if the next guy is a male or a female.

I don’t judge all men based on the actions of a few, so why should I judge all women based on the actions others? I understand a lot guys posting here have been screwed over by their ex-wives, and are pissed off. They have every right to be. But they should direct that angry at their ex-wives, not women in general. It’s about individual responsibility, not lumping all women in one group.

I’ll assume your angry is from the fact your ex-wife castrated you. Then blame your ex-wife. I hope you’re never mugged by a member of a minority group, otherwise I can only imagine the racist rant you’ll post directed at an entire group, based on the actions of one individual.

If you want to claim victim hood at the hands of an entire class of people, join the Democrat Party. That’s their racket.

Anonymous said...

We're a little tired of the Momism from both sides of the political spectrum, Dr. C.

Unless a woman is full force behind joint custody laws, abolition of alimony for working ex-wives, and reform of domestic violence statutes, she has no right whatsoever to tell a man what to do.

Put your money where your mouth is, Melissa. Write a column about joint custody. Write about the double standard when women molest teenage boys and receive minimal sentences.

We don't care what you think. We'll do what we want to avoid the mangina legal system and the left and the right-wing political movements. Go f*ck yourself the next time you feel the urge to tell men how to live their lives.

Anonymous said...

I think alot of the men who are offended by the "man up" statement should ask themselves why they are offended and why they are so angry. If the shoe doesnt fit it shouldn't bother or ruffle a feather. I think maybe we need to organize an anger management class for you assholes

Anonymous said...

<<"I think maybe we need to organize an anger management class for you assholes">>

--

People who disagree are assholes who need anger management classes?

I've mostly seen well-constructed counterpoints and good arguments; not always, but mostly. I also feel that Melissa is off-base with her detailed prescriptions about how men should act. I'm not really going to blow a blood vessel with anger, though, it's just disagreement with her and also her sense of entitlement.

Your post has more name-calling than almost any other post on here. I think your approach is a bit strange; you're not even arguing the points.

Anonymous said...

... continued ...

I also think that Melissa is one of these women who thinks that nothing applies to her, she doesn't have to take any responsibility in life.

So it's easy for her to sit and take pot-shots at men and tell them to "man up" and whatever other specifications she has; it will never apply to her because she's just a girl (is apparently her way of thinking).

I think women would rightfully take offense if some guy - who didn't even have much of a grasp of life or the human condition - told women how they should act, and these specifications and prescriptions just happened to fit what would benefit him as a man.

Get some bigger tits and shut your mouths, bitches!

And if women then provided a reasoned response to this nonsense, they were told they were assholes for responding.

Just bizarre. By the way, men are human beings, not inanimate robots put on this earth to please Melissa.

Anonymous said...

Buckeye Tom --

You're really full of yourself aren't you?

Professionalism said...

I stopped giving a damn about what "women" wanted a long time ago.

Why?

Because most females have no freaking clue what they want.


They are like an emotional pendulum that swings too and fro, only this pivot has NO predictable path.

Females will cry and complain that they want a sensitive and emotional man, then when men (like the wusses they are) conform to what they want, women will proclaim they want the "Brawny Man."

It is just like females in the workplace, they can not decide if they want to be "strong and independent" or "daddy's princess".

My response to Dr. Aimless or similar females write such rubbish...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ_lmVrRUVY

Anonymous said...

Sorry, Melissa strikes me as an immature, entitled little girl.

She wants, wants, wants, people to act exactly like she desires. But she has nothing to offer in return. I guess the Holy Vagina, but there are certainly other ones available for far less cost and trouble.

I'm surprised that anyone even takes her seriously.

Tim Tripp said...

Women need to learn to 'femme up', keep their cumdumpsters shut unless a man gives them permission to speak, and get back in the kitchen.

Under the traditional system that you advocate women aren't allowed to have an opinion. So it really doesn't matter what you think, does it?

Why on earth would you think that I gave a microshit about what a middle age hag like you thinks anyway? It's bad enough when you battleaxes' nag at us in person. Now you're nagging at us over the internet too!

Want to know what the smartest thing that's ever come out of a womans mouth is? Einstein's cock!

tweedburst said...

Ladies, the truth is 85% to 90% of you are flat out shitty people. Arrogant, perpetually snippety, nasty pains in the ass who have no clue just how repellent you really are. I am uninterested in following your instructions. I don't care about meeting your expectations. Twenty years ago, the fat shrew who wrote this drivel would have been demanding that men "show their feminine side" and she would have been just as dopey then. As for anonymous@2:50pm - look bitch, if you're not one of the women who are sociopathic assholes telling men to "man up" none of these posts should bother you. Right?

frey438 said...

It's obvious that the author as a woman should never have written such a ridiculous post. It is best ignored as the rantings of a female who is unable to grasp that real men do not need to be told of how to act.

Why don't women femme up? Well, we can't have that can't we?

zed said...

From the tone of a lot of these comments it would appear that men are not so much into "manning up" as they are manning out. As Dr Helen said it, men are going their own way and following their own agendas, and pretty much ignoring "society's" and women's agendas for them.

It was only a matter of time.

FGFM said...

You silly savage.

Anonymous said...

This is truly progress for men.

In the past, you had to get married to be nagged by an overweight, middle-aged, entitled bitch.

Now you can just go onto the Internet and get it anytime you want!

Wrathbone said...

Having served in the military, I really respect what you said about it contributing to "butching up." I think out of the men I've met since my honorable discharge, 90% would break down, cry and run down Washout Lane before the first week of boot camp was over.

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